7 Ohio State transfers and what a still-loaded quarterback room says about the program: Buckeye Talk podcast (2024)

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- The second transfer portal window wasn’t quite as explosive for Ohio State football as the first. It only lost seven players, none being considered to win a starting role this season.

On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Nathan Baird and Andrew Gillis break down OSU’s roster retention heading into the summer and whether there is any impact to the few losses. Then the trio has a conversation about the Buckeyes holding on to all four scholarship quarterbacks and what that says about the mentality of the room and the type of recruit who’d signed up to be part of something like that.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:07.198)

Welcome back to book guy talk. I’m Stephen Means. That’s Nathan Barrett and that’s Andrew Gillis and the transfer portal for the spring window is officially closed. It closed at midnight on Tuesday. You’re getting this on Thursday. We wanted to make sure nothing was.

Kind of getting in there late a little bit. Ohio said officially seven transfers in the spring window. 25, Nathan overall between this window and then that earlier window after the season started. Just to put that in perspective at some other college programs around the country. Alabama had 38 plus Kaden Proctor. I didn’t know how to add him because he transferred out, but then he transferred back in. So I’m not sure how to even add him in. So I did 38 plus Kaden Proctor. USC 28, Washington 28, OSU 25.

Texas 24, Oklahoma 23, Wisconsin 23, Georgia 23, Florida State 22. Those are some of the prominent programs who had over 20. And then there’s Colorado who had 30 million. And then Oregon 19, Michigan 17, Clemson 12. Excuse me, LSU also had over 20. They had 26. And then Penn State, only nine transfers between these two windows. So good for James Franklin, not losing a bunch of guys here, but seven guys in the spring window. Nathan.

Keon Gray is the wide receiver. Nigel Glover, the linebacker slash safety who had transferred in from Northwestern last fall. So actually him and Andrew had been there the same amount of time. Enoch Vamahi, the last remaining member of the 2019 recruiting class who was still on the roster. Jahad Carter, the spring 2023 transfer in from Syracuse. Cedric Hawkins, who has transferred to UCF. Dallin Hayden and Sam Hart, both have already transferred to Colorado.

more or less than what maybe you were expecting Nathan for Ohio State transfers in the spring.

Nathan Baird (01:51.919)

No, I think this is right about where I thought it would probably be. I wasn’t one who was kind of an alarmist and thought they would lose a lot of people. I know there was definitely not just on the Ohio State beat, but just across college football. I think there was a sense that this was going to be just a flood of guys into the portal because it just, you know, you get to kickstart a new era of free agency every six months or whatever, three months, and that teams would get out of the spring and see.

Oh, we need some help here. Let’s put out the bat signal and go find, go co*ke somebody into the portal somewhere. And at Ohio state, I thought you could see the path where who was probably going to leave and who was potentially going to stay. Nobody who went in the portal for Ohio state was a surprise. Probably the biggest surprise for some is who didn’t go in the portal. And I think if we went back and re listened to the.

Last time we talked about this on a pod or maybe about a month ago when we were talking about the quarterbacks, I was skeptical that they were, any of these quarterbacks were definitely going to go. I thought there was a reason, a legitimate reason why all these guys would potentially want to stay. I guess Lincoln Keenholz was maybe the one who seemed like he was the pinched the most, but I also saw the upside for him if he wanted to stay. And I guess we’ll discuss those things more, but in terms of just numbers.

No, this is about what I thought it would be. And after a couple of years of being like, whoa, how are we going to fit all these people in? And we got to get some hope some guys go in the portal because we need to bring some guys. I remember last year, it’s funny that Nigel Glover went in the portal because I remember that’s not funny. I mean, it’s just, but it’s, it’s funny in a, in an ironic sense because I remember being at Big Ten Media Day and kind of pulling Ryan Day aside to check on some roster things with him and.

And I was trying to clarify that roster number. And, and I remember him being, I can’t remember now exactly what he said, but being like, I was like, well, so does that put you guys at 85? And he says like, well, it better or something like that. Like he, they were even tight, like going into August last year by like one spot. And they had to, that’s why they were figuring out, Oh, is Lorenzo Stiles going to be on scholarship? That sort of thing. And this year it’s just felt much smoother after, well, the spring felt much smoother. January was.

Nathan Baird (04:11.951)

chaos in December. That was, that was crazy. But now it’s, it’s this spring I thought was a little, it was pretty straightforward. And I, it says a little bit about the health of a program. Not always like it’s interesting to hear that Penn State number that they’ve only had nine in the last two cycles, because they’ve definitely added some guys, Julian Fleming and some other people. So that either tells me that I would be interesting to sit down and really try to drill in on why that is. It’s still a small sample size.

but why there’s a difference between even Penn State and Ohio State. And my guess is that Ohio State’s recruiting, the higher you are in the recruiting rankings, the more transfers out you probably should have because it’s a different proving ground. And guys, you’re recruiting guys who have a reasonable expectation not to have to wait three or four years to play. And when they get two years in, two or three years in, like I had forgotten the key on Graves was a top 100 prospect, frankly, because.

And it’s no fault of him. I’m not trying to throw shade on him, but like he just hadn’t ever had a chance to materialize. I mean, I guess he had the chance, but it’s such a stacked room here. So it’s interesting to hear the Penn State only had nine. And I wonder if it’s because they don’t quite load up at every position the way Ohio State does, which then leads to a certain level of attrition. And it’s so what’s healthy for Penn State and what’s healthy for Ohio State as it comes to transfers might be two different conversations.

Stephen Means (05:44.446)

I think that’s part of the reason, right? It’s in Penn State, just the way they recruit. It’s not everybody’s in a position where it’s like in year two we’re going, hey, why aren’t you on the field yet? In year three, what’s going wrong here when you’re not on the field? Because they’re not recruiting the same way. You’re talking about one class that’s in the top five every single year and another class where they have a top 15 class. It’s a pretty good year. Andrew, that aspect though, because Ohio State, 21 commits plus the six incoming transfers. So when you hear a number like 24,

five at first it’s like, Oh, what’s going on? That’s like a quarter of your roster leaving every single year. But then you’re rep, you got 25 come leaving, but then you’ve got another 26, 27 who are coming in every single year. Just they did have some fireworks after the season losing Kyle McCord losing Julian Fleming on down the list there. But were you shot? I guess that the sheer number of the guys that they didn’t lose in the spring window in comparison to what they lost in the winter.

No, because I think that this is just gonna be kind of the way of the world.

Andrew (06:48.782)

of this iteration of college football, where I think the beginning, you know, the first transfer portal window, the, you know, the fall kind of winter window, I think that that is definitely going to be the one that’s way more active. You’re going to have coaching changes, you’re going to have, you know, the season just ended. So guys want to get a fresh start, you know, guys kind of become aware of maybe their situations. Like, I mean, I think this is a, I think Nathan’s right. I think this is about where I saw them.

Um, you know, this is about the, you know, kind of the, the room and, and kind of the things that I thought were going to happen in the spring. I didn’t think you’re going to have a massive change, you know, in terms of bringing guys in or, or, you know, guys departing the program. I just don’t think that that is the way that the spring portal is going to work at this point, because, you know, sometimes you.

Andrew (00:09.332)

No, I think the number of transfers is probably about what you expect. And I think this is kind of what you thought was going to happen. I think the winter portal is just always going to be a little bit busier than the fall portal. You know, the season will have just ended. That’s when the predominant number of coaching changes happen, like in that first week or two after the after the regular season ends, especially for teams that are

kind of out of contention of everything of the college football playoff of a bowl game of whatever. So you’re gonna have a lot of movement there. And I think that that’s gonna change a lot of things. So I think this is just kind of always gonna be the way it is where, you know, the winter is very busy, December’s a remarkably busy month. And then you get to the spring and you have a handful of guys that move on from the program because, you know, they tried to give it their all and in spring ball and it just didn’t work. You know, they, they, they saw what they could do or they saw kind of where they stood on the depth chart.

and maybe a coach talk to him and tell him, look, man, it’s not gonna happen for here for you. Or here’s where you’re at on the depth chart and you can kind of draw your own conclusions. There’s just, there’s a lot of ways that this, that this can happen. But I think that’s about kind of where I thought that they were going to end up, you know, with this number, just because, you know, there were some depth guys that you knew that they were going to be like roster battles for, for as much as we talked about this team’s, you know, number one and number two units being kind of mostly settled.

You know, there were still a couple of battles still, you know, kind of in the, in the lower ranks of the depth chart. And, you know, I think you’re seeing guys leave that, um, are going to try to go find places to play in 2024 that can probably be more beneficial to them. And I think that that’s just going to be the way it is because as I’ve said before on here, you know, in the winter, you don’t anticipate Caleb downs, Caleb coming out every year, you don’t anticipate these elite level.

And I think that that’s.

Andrew (02:01.524)

Oh my goodness level players coming out, but significant players do enter the portal, right? And in the spring, I just, I don’t think that that’s the case because I think once you hit the spring, you are more or less kind of where you are. And I don’t know how many, you know, true elite high level, this guy’s going to be a sure fire first round pick player. I don’t know how many of those guys are coming out in, uh, in the spring portal windows. So.

This is kind of about what I anticipated. You have a couple of depth guys that hit the portal and we’ll see what, if anything, Ohio State does to kind of patch some of those holes.

So Nathan, when we, when stuff happens around Ohio State, there’s obviously the news of it, then there’s kind of the what does it mean for the roster, what does it mean for the program, what does it mean for whatever position room they’re in, and the seven guys that they lost, 808 combined snaps for those guys. In fact, two of those guys never even played a single down at Ohio State, Nigel Glover and, excuse me, Cedric Hawkins never playing it down.

Enoch Vamahi, been here since 2019, 375 snaps in his career. Dallin Hayden played 275 snaps in his career. Those 60 of them were in 2023. So all but 60 of them came in 2022 when he was a part of an injury -riddled running back room. And they kind of needed him to play in that situation. Sam Hart, 18 career snaps, all came in 2022. I know some of those came in the...

against Georgia in the college football playoff when they were down some tight ends as well. And then Keon Gray is playing 16 snaps in 2022, no snaps for him in 2023. So when we talk about the impact as Andrew’s talking about here, it’s almost close to none outside of Dow and Hayden in terms of does this hurt Ohio State’s room in any way, shape or form?

Nathan Baird (03:50.125)

Hayden’s the only one that you saw not just his path to playing, but where he had a real impact for 2024. And we can quibble with that even, I suppose, because when you’ve got two co -starters, you’re covered on your backup as well. Obviously, he still was going to be the number three back. That was going to have utility. I mean, late in games or if something happens to one of the other two, then you do have a solid third guy that can step up.

and you’re not having to overload the other guy. But even that impact may end up being minimal. Like somebody else, James Peoples can probably get you pretty close maybe to what that was going to be. I don’t think that’s a catastrophe at all. And as we said before, they can add someone through the portal still. The deadline that happened Tuesday is only for entry to the portal. You can still add people from the portal at any time, I guess.

So if there’s a running back out there that they feel like they could add for depth reasons, that could still happen. There’s some other positions, you know, with Keon Gray’s leaving, with Cedric Hawkins and Jahad Carter both leaving. Those are two positions where there were not like an abundance of scholarship players. They weren’t overflowing with scholarship players there. And now they’ve gotten whittled down a little bit. The truth is though, if you’re trying to put together a three deep, it seems like Ohio State likes David Adolph enough that he can be on the three deep, right? There’s your third string receiver.

Inky Jones could be a third string safety. They’re they’re probably okay there It shouldn’t prohibit them from doing what they want to do as far as you know spreading out and getting a lot of practice reps in and You know, you’ve got it You’ve got a summer to help coach some of these guys up to and you’ve got some true freshmen moving in at those positions, too So if anything, maybe it helps get some true freshmen more reps in practice than they would have gotten if some of these slightly older guys were sticking around so Yeah

Hayden is the only one where you look at it and say, okay, in theory, top to bottom, that makes the 2024 depth chart a little bit weaker. But weaker is a tough word to use. It’s just a little bit less. I don’t know if I’d say shaky. It’s like you feel the hit. If it’s a video game and you’re scoring the positions, you’re scoring the rooms, the running back room went down a little bit in terms of its average ranking.

Andrew (05:58.068)

shakier.

Nathan Baird (06:13.005)

its average score that you would give guys, right? Its average, average grade, average, whatever. It went down slightly. I don’t know that that impacts how many games Ohio State can win in 2024.

And I think the thing with the running back position in general, it goes down until they start playing football because we’ve had plenty of conversations about this, but I think James Peeples could do what Dallin Hayden did as a true freshman in 2022. And it seems like there are people in the building who think James Peeples would be ready to have that role. It doesn’t mean you don’t go find somebody if there’s somebody in the portal worth grabbing, but if it feels like you’ve got a guy in the room who can be...

You mentioned though that

Stephen Means (06:49.899)

what Dallin Hayden was going to be this year anyway, it probably Andrew kind of lifts the weight of how hard of a hit that was to begin with.

Yeah, I think, you know, the Dalin Hayden thing, I think it certainly does maybe a number for the 2025 room, because I think that there was a scenario where you’re looking at it going, you know, this could be the 2025 number one, and you have a one -two punch of him and James Peeples. But, you know, Nathan brought something up too that I do think is important to note as people talk about transfer portal season, because it feels like every year, you know, Ohio State’s fans worry about the transfers leaving.

And, you know, simultaneously you can point another school and say, look at all the transfers that they have. That’s just kind of the way that this works. You know, that there’s this decent number of players are going to leave every year, every winter and every spring. And. How like there’s I don’t know how many teams in college football when you get down to your third, like besides quarterback and even then maybe especially quarterback, like you’re playing multiple guys. How many guys are, hey, if we get down to our third string, you know, linebacking core, we’re going to be OK.

Right. Like I think that, you know, there is that element too, where it’s, you know, sometimes you lose depth, but even if that depth was on the field, you’re probably still in a little bit of trouble. Right. You know, we can talk about the safety room. Like, you know, you lose Jahad Carter, you lose Cedric Hawkins, and now you’re looking at the safety room going, all right, Lathan Ransom, Caleb Downs, and then you need some guys to step up. Well, if Lathan Ransom and Caleb Downs go down and then you’re playing like Malik Hartford and Jaden Bonsu,

You know, that’s probably enough to get by, but you’re not feeling great about it. And then one more guy goes down and then it’s like, all right, well, there’s nothing we could have done here anyway. So there is that element of this too, which is, I think, important to note that, you know, there is no team in college football that has three teams just ready to roll, right? You don’t have a first team, second team, third team. Like every single one of these guys could be starters at our school right now today. That’s just.

Andrew (08:57.204)

That’s just not the way that this works. So, you know, you can lose depth, but I also think sometimes that can be overstated because if those guys had to play anyway, there’s not really a ton of expectations that you could have put on those guys.

No, the depth thing is really more about practice. It’s more about like filling out as much of a team as you want and not having to like, oh, we have to take this running back who’s our sixth running back and just make him a safety for the fall because we need more. What they did a couple of years ago turning the kicker into a cornerback, like stuff like that. I guess that was as much for his benefit as anything because he really wasn’t in the kicking.

It’s about practice. Yeah.

Development, yeah.

Yeah.

Stephen Means (09:35.211)

Thank you.

Nathan Baird (09:40.365)

conversation anymore, but like stuff like that, like it starts getting a little bit weird. The one that I guess, if you’re ranking these, the one I would put number two after Hayden would be Jahad Carter, just because last year when they needed a backup safety and they turned to Malik Hartford, he wasn’t ready. And they quickly pivoted right back to Jahad Carter early in the season. Later in the season, I think Malik Hartford was getting it though. And I think that’s part of what Jahad Carter probably saw this spring. He also was not.

necessarily practicing that much this spring. It didn’t look like he was not always in the mix and with Hartford being able to practice as much as he did with Bonsu being able to practice as much as he did with other guys getting those reps like they’ve had other guys stepping up. Jalen McLean, other guys stepping up. So I think he probably saw that if it’s going to be the tie is going to go to the younger guy on reps. And I think he probably saw a lot of

Mm -hmm.

Nathan Baird (10:39.053)

highs at best in terms of who deserve to play this fall.

Yeah, I agree with he was number two because he’s the only guy on this list of the seven that probably had a chance to play this fall had things some things happen like if an injury happens he was the next guy on this list would probably play but from a practice standpoint the depth is not going to be an issue because some of these guys in terms of just your scholarship numbers these guys are leaving but there’s also some freshmen who are going to be getting here this for.

this summer and so they’ll take over that scholarship spot. Keon Gray’s, he leaves the room. Well, you got Mylon Graham, five -star wide receiver coming in. So you’re still at eight scholarship wide receivers. Plus, as you mentioned, Nathan, you still got David Adolph. You’re talking about Cedric Hawkins and Jahad Carter leaving. Well, Lee -Roy Walker is gonna come in and he’ll probably get to be on the scout team this year. So that.

solves that issue there. You’re losing Enoch Bama, he has an older interior offensive lineman, where you’re bringing in Gabe Van Sickle as a guy who’s probably gonna be on scout team this year for you as well. Sam Hart, you’re bringing in Max LeBlanc this year. You also got DeMarion Whitten, who could be a wide receiver or tight end. I think he’s gonna start out a wide receiver though, start off his career and then they’ll take him from there. And so Dominic Kirk is coming in with a defensive line room. So the depth from a practice standpoint, making sure you just have enough bodies.

Ohio State’s going to be fine there. While also, Dallin Hayden and Jahad Carter are probably the two where it’s like. I mean, it’s a little bit of a hit because what if one of these guys in a room where these guys have injury histories, right? Draven Henderson has had some injuries in his career. Lathan Ransom’s had some injuries in his career. You probably might need Jahad Carter, Dallin Hayden, but at the same time, it’s not the top in talent you’re talking about. One more thing I want to bring up here, Nathan. And it’s with Keon Gray specifically.

Stephen Means (12:20.779)

Ohio said at four wide receivers in that 2022 recruiting class. Keon Gray’s and Caleb Brown were the two top 100 recruits. Caleb Burton at one point in his career was the number one wide receiver in his career. He ended up falling down, had an injury and kind of threw off his development there. Caleb Brown transferred to Iowa after year one. Caleb Burton transferred to Auburn after year one. And now Keon Gray’s after year two is out the door in a situation where he’s from Arizona. So I’m wondering if he ends up just closer to the West Coast. Cole -Joan Tweez, the last one left.

and he has played next to nothing at this point and he’s an ex receiver. And right now the ex receiver hierarchy is. Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith and whatever order you want to put them in and then the Macabuca can play everywhere. That’s also the lowest rated group that Brian Hartline has put together. One more thing I want to throw out to you, because this is a it’s I’m using the wide receivers to tell a bigger story here. Twenty one people in the 2022 recruiting class, eight have already transferred.

And I think only like two or three have even carved out a role and they’re heading into year three. Just, I don’t know that not every class is going to be what the 2017 class was in the 2021 recruiting class was. And I think that’s a bigger pile we can have later. But just as you look back on that 2022,

wide receiver class. Is this just about how you thought it would go when you see what the surrounding classes have looked like where eventually Brian Hartline is going to have a class where one, it’s filled with developmental guys, but then also being developmental doesn’t mean you eventually get on the field at Ohio State.

Well, let’s not call top 100 prospects developmental guys. It’s that stuff that’s still that’s still a bridge too far for me. It’s not like these are those, you know, four star top 300 guys who are, you know, borderline as far as getting that designation. Like these are top 100 players. These are heavily recruited by the best programs in the country. So if you’re asking me like on on signing day 2022, is this how I thought it would go?

Stephen Means (13:59.691)

I mean, in a world where all the other classes have five stars, like...

Nathan Baird (14:25.037)

No, because I don’t think we knew exactly the extent of what 2023 would look like. You don’t necessarily know in 2024, especially like you might have had an idea that Tate and Ennis were going to probably maybe be coming by then. But we didn’t know for sure. Jeremiah Smith, we didn’t know for sure. Mylon Graham. Like there were some things that were still very far off into the future, like the Chris Henry thing where he commits as a fourth grader, whatever isn’t very common. So. I know I don’t think this is really how I thought it would play out.

specifically for these guys. But I think at large, we have become a little bit.

desensitized to transfers out of the receiver room, even when they’re highly ranked guys. And like I said, like I felt a little weird, like when I was writing up the thing about Grays going in the portal and having to be reminded, like, oh yeah, he was like, he was a top one. He was like in the eighties, he was like, not even like borderline top 100. He was like, you know, a consensus of the recruiting world. He was a top 100 prospect. And...

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Stephen Means (15:26.955)

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (15:30.669)

We just take it for granted now that those guys will transfer out after a couple of years because they’re not the one or two or five ranked prospect in the country. And those guys are what are populating the starting lineup now at Ohio state for the foreseeable future. So it’s.

If anything, I guess by 2023, I think I think the only surprising thing was maybe that he didn’t go in the portal in back in the winter when other guys did when Noah Rogers went in the portal when Bryson Rogers went in the portal and then came back. That was when I thought maybe they would lose more receivers than they did. And I guess I can’t necessarily quibble with the timing of it. I think you you stay in.

you give yourself one more shot to prove that you belong on the depth chart. If it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen, then, you know, from an NIL perspective, from like a, I don’t know how many other top 100 receivers are in the transfer portal right now, former top one, you know what I mean? Like he might be one of the most sought after receivers that’s available on the open market right now. And that’s going to become a thing here. Guys who maybe know they’re going to have to transfer, you’re timing that up.

you know, stay here for the second semester, get another semester of school at a place that you’re used to going to school and push yourself towards a degree and then go in the portal when maybe the timing works out better for you depending. It’s almost going to be like timing the draft class to some weird extent. Like give yourself the best opportunity to find the best situation. And this is also the guys who are leaving. We just had.

the first, other than Jameson Williams, we just had the first instances that I can remember of guys who transferred out of Ohio State who we didn’t really see a future for getting drafted in Ryan Watts and Gervonta Jean -Baptiste, right? Like I can’t remember anybody else that has transferred out in recent years ending up as a draft pick. That’ll happen next year too with Quinn Ubers, by the way. But that’s again, that’s more of a decommitment than a transfer in a lot of ways. But,

Nathan Baird (17:43.693)

And I don’t know if any of these guys are NFL draft picks, maybe Dallin Hayden. That’s probably the only one that they’ve lost in this spring cycle. So that’s the other thing to remember. It’s, it’s, um, the guys that are there cycling out, um, are not really on that trajectory to end up in the NFL very often.

And I think this is the first group of normal transfers we’ve seen to what you’re talking about there, right? Because Jameson Williams is actually an outlier. But when that’s your first major transfer and then he goes to Alabama, which is another program who can look you in the eye and he turns himself into a Politnikov Award finalist in a first round draft pick, it almost adds to the allure of the room, Andrew, of look how good the room is, a dude who was at best four.

in Ohio State’s wide receiver room goes somewhere else in terms of a top 15 draft pick. Kayla Brown this past year at Iowa, 22 catches for 215 yards of the touchdown. Kayla Burton this past year at Auburn, 16 catches for 226 yards, no touchdown. To Nathan’s point, Andrew, this is more of the norm. Everybody’s not gonna come in here. Every wide receiver they bring in here isn’t gonna be, oh, they’re the number four guy in this room.

but they’re an all American level player when they go into the next room. So I think I want to get out with you is we’re in the middle of that right now with Ohio State’s recruiting class in 2025. They’ve only got one recruit. He’s not a top 100 commit and the guy they, and Desi Jones and the guy they lost, Jay, Jayvon Boggs wasn’t a top 100 recruit either. But you’ve got Jeremiah Smith who looks like he’s just locked down a spot for the next three years.

Mylon Graham showing up this summer from the 2024 class who maybe this isn’t a year for him because he didn’t early enroll, but next year at this time we’re expecting him to be in the mix. You’ve already got Chris Henry Jr. in a 2026 class as the number one player in the country. And there’s a couple other five stars are in right now in a world where maybe Ohio State doesn’t get the Corian more. They don’t get Jamie Fitz. Maybe they strike out on those guys. Could you envision another class like this 2022 class for all the 2025 class where it is?

Stephen Means (19:47.371)

to Nathan’s point, they’re not developmental guys, but it’s just not a bunch of guys who you’re expecting to get on the field by year two. And because of that, maybe we look back on the class two years in and maybe 50 % or even 75 % in this situation are in the transfer report, because that’s just where the wide receiver room is, where maybe once every two or three years, you have a class like this, where things just don’t pan out, because you had two or three other classes where things panned out so well that they’ve just locked spots down for multiple years.

Well, yeah, that’s obviously possible. But I you said two years. I think it might be two minutes because think about the twenty twenty four class. You mentioned Jeremiah Smith and Mylan Graham. They lost the top 50 receiver on signing day to Oregon to a flip. Jeremiah McClellan went to Oregon and everybody went, oh, yeah, exactly. Everybody went, oh, that’s right. Whatever. Did we keep Edric Houston?

Oh yeah, that’s right.

Oh yeah, that guy.

Andrew (20:44.34)

Andrew, did we keep eduaccusing? People were texting in all day. I’m hearing this about eduac. What’s going on with eduac? What about eduac? What about this? Is Jeremiah Smith gonna like it? It was one of those things where it was like, uh, oh, okay. Moving on. And it was, it just, that’s the way people talk about this room. So yeah, it’s, I don’t think it’s a transfer portal thing. I just think it’s a person leaves Ohio state.

from the time that they’re junior in high school to the time that they’re a senior in college, where a player could decommit when they’re in high school or a player could transfer when they’re at Ohio State. And the room is just at a point where you’re like, yeah, it just probably wasn’t going to work. Like, have, I mean, I have obviously not been on this beat, but I know this hasn’t happened. There has not been a 1200 yard receiver enter the transfer portal for Ohio State. Like,

There have been like we mentioned Jameson Williams who leaves and then becomes a superstar. But Ohio State exactly wasn’t hurting for talent at receiver. So yeah, you can lose a player and he can go somewhere else and shine, but you’re not losing players who have shined and then are going somewhere else. So I think we’re already there where it’s just kind of like people are disregarding the wide receiver room and people are saying like, ah, well, you know, this happens in the receiver room. You know,

The 2022 class is one thing, you know, those classes I think are going to be, you know, common throughout, but it’s also going to be the recruiting classes that are in front of our faces, right? You know, you mentioned some of the players that Ohio State is talking to, and they’re trying to flip like De ‘Corian Moore, uh, Jimmy French is out there. Those are two five -star players. Like if you get those five -star players, if you get even one of them, and then you get, uh, Vernal Brown, who’s another top a hundred player.

Let’s say you go into the national signing day week or whatever and it’s Jamie French, Vernell Brown and Des Jones. Like you’re feeling good about that. And if you lose Des Jones, it’s going to be, ah, well, nevertheless, we have Jamie French and our room is awesome anyway. And we’re returning Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith for next year. Two starters on the 2014. Oh, no. Yeah, I.

Andrew (23:04.628)

I think that this team is already there. I think that fans are already there and I think that people are already there when they talk about this receiving.

So Keon Grey is the only person of the seven transfers in the spring window who was a top 100 recruit. In fact, the only other person who was even close to that, Enoch Vamahi, was number 124 in that 2019 recruiting class. That was just so interesting because Ryan Day, I remember, Ryan Day, I think, took a commercial flight to Hawaii to go last minute to make sure they wrapped up that Enoch Vamahi recruitment, Nathan. So that was just, it’s just, that’s almost funny. It’s all right. How many of these recruitments?

where you’ve spent a decent chunk of change to go get that guy. And then you look back on it, it’s like, man, that probably wasn’t worth it because you spent a lot of money to get on a commercial flight to go to Hawaii. For a guy, and this isn’t about, you know, it’s just in general, there’s just a lot that goes into recruiting. And so maybe when it doesn’t pay off on the backend, it can, you k

w, it probably stings just a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, Enig Vomahi, from what I gathered at that time, Enig Vomahi was kind of the offensive line equivalent of Mayan Williams in a way. Like they had to get somebody and they had to try to get, and it had to be somebody of a certain stature because they just needed quality bodies there. And then that doesn’t mean you stop recruiting at your usual standard in the next class, right? So, um,

Yeah.

Stephen Means (24:22.315)

Mm -hmm.

Stephen Means (24:30.507)

Right. Yeah.

I think he had a fine backup career, but that obviously was where it was going to have a ceiling for him based on everything we saw this spring. He was never really talked about in that conversation and he had his chances to show things in starting capacity. So, you know, good luck to him. He’s a good dude. Talked to him on a handful of occasions. Back in 2019, I did some reporting on a piece I wanted to do about his...

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (25:01.261)

background because he is from Hawaii as people know and had to make a decision. In fact, again, when I was here in 20 first moved here in 2019, there was question as to whether or not he was going to stay in the program because he they have to use these Mormon. They have to do a mission at some point in their young lives. His brother played, I want to say, a Utah and.

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (25:27.917)

did, I think, leave and go do his mission and come back. I could be wrong about that. So I remember he having to kind of weigh that decision. He decided to put it off until he was done with at least college football. So, yeah, good guy, good family from when I talked to them and best of luck to the guys like that. Because those guys still have value. I know that they don’t ever get in the field and do things, but like the better your guys who don’t get on the field are.

the better your guys who are on the field are typically, right? It makes those guys better. It helps give the youngest guys who are trying to push through, the harder they have to push through, the better they are when they get there. I’m not trying to coach speak this and iron sharpens iron whatnot, but I think there is something to be said for that. And I think even if he was never Ohio State starter caliber, he was certainly a contributing player underneath at a program like this. And this is why the transfer portal,

I think is so positive because now he gets to go probably find a place maybe out West, maybe something closer to home and a place that he probably could step in and start right away. It may be a group of five level. I don’t know, but like someplace where he can go and probably cap his career with something that is worth the sacrifice that he had put in here.

So, Enoch Guamahi’s transfer mixed with the graduations of Josh Proctor and Matthew Jones wraps up the 2019 and 2018 recruiting classes during their time here at Ohio State. I see Tommy Eichenberg, Kate Stover, Steel Chambers are part of that as well, which means the oldest group on the roster now is the 2020 group. That’s looking at you, Court Williams. That’s looking at you.

No, it’s looking at you, G Scott, and on down the list there’s a couple of those guys sticking around there for the fifth year as well. But good luck to those seven guys that transferred so far. Three of those guys have found a home. Cedric Hawkins, closer to home back in Florida at UCF. Dallin Hayden and Sam Hart. Sam Hart’s headed home and Dallin Hayden just going out there to play for Deion Sanders at Colorado, which we had a conversation before we started recording that kind of got a little.

Stephen Means (27:32.843)

It was a fun conversation. It’s just about Deion Sanders, but two of those guys headed out there to play at Colorado. The other four locations TBD. So get the text 614 -350 -3315. We’ll let you guys know when those guys do pick places and see what they like. Cause that matters as well, right? If you’re losing guys to, you know, group of five schools, that’s one thing, but so far you’ve lost of the seven you lost on the spring portal.

All three of them have been to Power Four programs. And so that says something that there are guys in your program who are with the twos and threes and sometimes fours who are going to Power Four programs. That shows you how strong your program is. We’re going to take a quick break here and then we’re going to get into what didn’t happen and what that means and how that sorts things out heading into the 2024 season here on Buckeye Talk.

So Ohio State came into the spring with five quarterbacks, two returning in Devin Brown and Lincoln Keenholz, and then two, one in a recruiting class, and Aaron Nolan has a five star, another one as a transfer in Will Howard from Kansas State, and then another one who’s like half transfer, half freshman signee, however you wanna dictate, Julian Sand outta Alabama, who’s here because Nick Saban retired.

Five quarterbacks. And the main question we had, Nathan, was how are they going to handle all five of these quarterbacks? And all five of these guys are definitely not going to be on the roster by the time we get to the fall, right? And I think the first two everybody we’re looking at were Devin Brown and Lincoln Keenholz.

for two different reasons. Devon Brown, it’s like, OK, this is your second quarterback battle. You lost out the column a quarter year ago. If you lose out again this time around with Will Howard, do you stick around? Though Devon continued to tell us, I’m not going anywhere, and only the way Devon Brown can. And then Lincoln Kienholz as the spring progressed, Nathan, because what you had is a situation where you had two older guys who were clearly what the quarterback battle was between Will Howard and Devon Brown, and then two younger guys in Julian Sand and Aaron Nolan as two freshmen, one of which we’ve

Stephen Means (29:29.293)

already started asking, hey, could this guy eventually win the job as a true freshman, which put Lincoln Keenholds in an interesting kind of limbo purgatory place. All five of those guys stayed put thoughts on what that means for Ohio State’s 2024 roster.

Listen, it’s not like they needed the roster space. So it wasn’t like they were crunched there. And it’s, you’ve got three levels of development happening here. You’ve got, you know, Will Howard isn’t developing. He just kind of is what he is. I mean, he’s obviously trying to improve within this system, but this is his last year of college football. He is what he is. And you don’t know exactly what the timeline is for Devin Brown, but being in his third year, there’s dynamics there that would say, you know, it’s, you,

without starting he’s probably not going to be here in year five. So you’ve got guys on that level and then you’ve got Keenholds who’s kind of on his own tier almost in terms of development then you’ve got two true freshmen coming in and all of those guys have reasons why it makes sense to stick around. You know Keenholds, or I’m sorry Brown and obviously Howard was going to stay unless he was told he wasn’t definitely going to start for some reason after the spring and I don’t think there was any indication that was

going to happen at all. So he and Brown, like there isn’t, I mean, we can all sit here and speculate as to who we think is going to win the starting quarterback job and the spring game, you know, Howard started, Howard got more reps with the ones than Brown did, but that job’s not answered. Like that job, that competition is ongoing. And as we’ve always said, the thing that complicates this, and I’ve said this going back to when we thought Kyle McCord had choices to make when Quinn Ubers was around.

Like being second in line is very often as good or better an option than at Ohio State is a better or similar option to where you would get somewhere else. Like right now, do you want to be the guy who would be the first guy up on a team that people think is maybe the national champion already? Like that’s a big opportunity. You don’t want to be somewhere else on a five and 17 playing a lot of quarterback and then looking over your shoulder and seeing.

Nathan Baird (31:48.653)

Oh, I would be starting at Ohio State right now. I think that’s a tough piece of math to do when you’re weighing these decisions. And for both, for Devin Brown, that’s why I thought he would be here this fall. Cause A, there’s just not a lot of quit in this kid. Like he’s battled and battled and battled and he sees the opportunity that is still within reach for him potentially. I did not think he was going to walk away from that. I had no indication that that was, he was going to be doing that.

Um, and for Keenholds, as we talked about, like, I think there’s reason to say, I’m not ready to start anywhere yet, probably. And I think Andrew, you made a good point when we talked about this before that like, well, that may be true, but if you see a place where there clearly is going to be a place for you to start, even if it’s not for another year, go there now, get established in the program, start building. I understand all that. I think there’s a point to be made for that. Um, but then you think of it the other way.

And it’s like a year from now, if Will Howard and Devin Brown for some reason are both gone and now it’s saying Keenholds and maybe Aaron Oland, but maybe he’s not around either. If he feels like he’s been pushed aside a little bit. Well now leaking him, it’s his number two quarterback on a team that’s going to be back in the playoffs and contending for a national championship again. So that, that backup option is always such a rich option for these guys that I think it’s a hard thing to.

walk away from if you think you could be in position to be number two either this current season or the next season. Those are the only two that I really thought might leave. I know there was maybe at some point because Aaron Olin got sort of set aside a little bit this spring, at least relative to Julian Sand, but you know, guys are on different timelines and he’s just getting started. And if you’re trying to grow and develop, there aren’t very many.

place is better to do that than here. Stay here and do it in the room this competitive and before you roll your roll the dice that you can do it better somewhere else just because you’re getting more playing time.

Stephen Means (33:52.523)

Devin Brown makes me want to root for him as a human being because you I think you said it perfectly. There’s just no quitting this kid. It’s I think most people in Devin Brown’s situation would have transferred. In fact, I think ninety nine point nine percent of us in Devin Brown’s situation would have transferred. But he’s just kind of like, no, I’m a stick around. I’m this and that’s I know you’re you’re making a face and that, but it’s just because that’s the world we live in with the transfer portal where you just see quarterbacks going in and out of some places. Rutgers just brought in a transfer

quarterback and so Gavin Wimsot is headed to the and he won the starting job. Gavin sent Wimsot is headed to the transfer portal because of that.

Well...

Nathan Baird (34:28.973)

Right, but no, that’s the difference though. Number one, they have already named Akin Kalecmanis the starter. So there’s that. There’s not a competition going on anymore. And number two, rising to be the starting quarterback at Rutgers is not the same thing as potentially rising to be the starting quarterback at Ohio State. You know what I’m saying? That is a huge part of this to me. When I look at this and we’re judging the motives of guys.

Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Means (34:47.275)

Okay, fair, fair. Calm the chord. No, fair point. Fair point.

Nathan Baird (34:58.221)

There are only a certain number of jobs in the country that are adjacent to being the starting quarterback for the eventual national champion. I know we’re expanding to 12 teams, that in theory expands the number of teams that can win a national championship, but in most years, in most years, no, it expands it to like five or six probably. Last year there were like, I thought five or six teams. There were Georgia and Ohio State didn’t make the playoff. Maybe you could even say Oregon, I guess.

It expands at that 18. It expands at that 18.

Stephen Means (35:21.707)

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (35:27.085)

So maybe seven that could have put themselves, if they had gotten in a tournament, maybe win a national championship. I think all three of those teams you could have made that argument about had just as much claim to say that as Texas, for instance. But it’s not gonna, that’s still, that’s only seven jobs. There’s only seven jobs in the country that have you on the doorstep of being the guy who can win a national championship. And when you’re battling and you don’t see a huge, I think this also probably tells us a little bit,

Yeah.

Stephen Means (35:39.499)

Mm -hmm.

Nathan Baird (35:56.973)

about what Devin Brown felt relative to how he performed this spring relative to Will Howard, right? Like, I think he probably feels some of the same things that we saw when we were allowed to see them. Will Howard may still win this job. This may still be Will Howard’s job for reasons that aren’t just performance. You know, Jimmy Watkins, our columnist, wrote back during the spring game that he thought Ohio State should nudge Devin Brown into the portal because, uh,

Mm -hmm.

Nathan Baird (36:26.797)

He thinks that’s where this is going to end up anyway. So tell the guy now to go get his, you know, a better option. Um,

I guess I understand where you’re coming from on that, but at the same time, you’re just, it’s, I think at the end of the day, if this were me, if I were Devin Brown, I think I would still be here because I don’t want to be at where? Trying to think of who would like, where he could go right away. Like, or Utah, yeah, somewhere out West, especially if you’re, I would, it’d have to be another power four to begin with.

BYU or like Arizona or something.

Nathan Baird (37:04.429)

So I don’t know, Arizona, does Arizona have a quarterback right now? I don’t even know. You go out West and you’re fighting to get into a rough bowl and you look over your shoulder and you see that Willow Howard got hurt in week five and now Julian Sayen is a starting quarterback, but that should be you potentially. And that’s gonna be a hard thing to swallow. I think with maybe not every, and this year in particular is different than the average Ohio State year. That always is kind of the case for Ohio State. This year it’s.

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (37:34.157)

really the case. Like this roster loaded the way it is with this kind of potential, I think it would be a hard thing to walk away from because, and the other thing to remember is he’s still got two more years after this. So if it doesn’t pan out, next year you still get to transfer somewhere and have two full years as a starter somewhere and still get a pretty full experience that a lot of guys get. So I am not shocked at all that Devin Brown.

didn’t go in the portal. It just doesn’t seem like his mindset, A, and B, I think you can make a compelling argument that the benefits of staying, the potential payoff of staying is much bigger than getting that first year as a starter at a lesser place.

I think that’s what this ball is now. And Kyle McCord even probably isn’t the best example because unfortunately he had to play a little bit in 2021. So because of that, and then he was the clear backup in 2022. So because of that, he literally only has one year of eligibility left. So he had to, he probably couldn’t gamble the same way that Devin Brown, because his would literally be a gamble with his last chip. But I think with quarterback in general,

It’s a regardless of who we’re talking about. It’s a what’s more important conversation. Is it the development and winning? Even if that means you don’t play immediately or is it trying to get on the field as quickly as possible? And I think that answer can vary. I think it depends on who you’re talking to. For Devin Brown, it’s clearly the former. There’s going to be quarterbacks out there in years where it’s clearly the latter. Just for Justin Fields, it was the latter. It was getting on the field as quickly as possible after he didn’t win the job at Georgia. So I just.

Devon Brown, knowing his personality, clearly it was not a shock that he didn’t leave. I think the bigger thing is, Ohio State had five quarterbacks in its room and none of them left. It’s an interesting thing to watch play out in the spring. It’s going to be interesting to watch continue to play out in the fall where you really can’t spread out the reps anymore because they’re trying to get ready to play football. So does that mean that Aaron Nolan and Julian Sand just didn’t get reps?

Stephen Means (39:51.243)

the Oregon week because they’re so busy trying to make sure that Will Howard or Devin Brown, which I have the ones, the starter is getting as many reps as possible. But then also you’re trying to work in the two a little bit just in case. So are there going to be weeks where four quarterbacks just didn’t get reps? Are there going to be weeks where maybe you can scale it back because it’s two by weeks. So maybe you don’t give your starters as many and you give an opportunity to the younger guys because you can’t. I think that’s where we’re at with this now. Andrew, the place I want you to look at this from is five on the roster.

One is definitely done after the season. Another one has at least two years left. Another one has at least three years left. And there are two true freshmen who still have all four years of eligibility. Plus, you’ve got a five star quarterback in your 2025 class. Who isn’t going anywhere? He’s from the state. He’s literally on the campus all the time, unless he’s doing a football thing showcase wise around the country, especially now that Ohio guys can play seven on seven. So he’s going to be here all the time. And the way he’s performing right now.

I don’t know, maybe he might be the best quarterback in the country by the time he signs, who knows. But that’s your room right now. Five guys in the room and a sixth guy who’s a five star recruit in your 2025 class for Ohio State recruiting effort that is looking at 2026, trying to find a quarterback. You are a highly rated quarterback. I’m making you the highly rated quarterback. And you’re looking at this room, are you kind of...

You know, are you interested in it or do you see it and go, no, that’s too much. I’m going to go somewhere else, which has happened to Ohio State, by the way, in 2023, the reason they got Lincoln Kinnels is because a lot of the higher rated guys said no to begin with. So they had to go find a specific type of quarterback who knew it was going to be a long -term development. They had one and he flipped the floor to state and ended up with Lincoln Kinnels.

Do you look at this room as a 2026 quarterback as something that excites you to be a part of because you want that challenge or is it too much? And because of that, maybe Ohio State doesn’t get the highest rated of guy in 2026.

Andrew (41:50.452)

I mean, I think you still take the highest rated guy you can. So if I was... yeah.

I know, I know, I’m not saying what Ohio State’s gonna do. What do you, I’m saying from the perspective of the recruit, does a recruit wanna sign up for this, regardless of what Ohio State wants or not, because they want the best quarterback possible every year. But do you think the best possible quarterback, the top five recruit in the country, the five star top 100 recruit would wanna sign up for this?

I think so. I think it’s possible. And I think if that were me, I would hope I would have advisors telling me because you said you have, you know, five in the room, you know, or you have six, you know, right now committed basically. But Will Howard’s going to be gone. Devin Brown is going to be gone. And then you’re down to Lincoln Keenholz, Aaron Olin, Julian Sain, Tavian Sinclair, those four. So you’re the fifth year. You would be the fifth guy in that room of four.

Keenholdt’s Nolan saying.

Is Kienholtz going to be around in the fall of 2026? I don’t know. Like, is Ernolland going to be around in the fall of 2026? I don’t know. Like, is Julien Sain going to be entering his junior year, knowing that he can play one more year of college football and then be a first round pick?

Andrew (43:17.716)

Maybe like that’s the, I mean, when you look at the recruiting rankings, like that’s the level of player that we’re talking about. So I, I, I get it, but I would be looking at it from a perspective of, well, all these dudes are going to be gone anyway, because there’s going to be transfers. And I know it’s hilarious to say there’s going to be transfers when there just were no transfers, but there’s going to be transfers at some point, right? Like I would be.

I would bet a lot of money that Devon Brown, Lincoln Keenholz, Aaron Oland and Julian Sand all finish up their four or five years at Ohio State as either backups or they just, they’re like, yeah, this is fine. I’m just going to be the third string here and then that’s fine. I’m not going to try and play anywhere else. Quarterbacks transfer. That’s what they do. And if you are a highly rated recruit, or if I am a highly rated recruit, if I’m the number nine player in the class in the 2026 class,

Why am I looking at Tavian St. Clair who finishes the number 13 player in the 2025 class or whatever he finishes up at going, oh man, big bad Tavian St. Clair’s here. I can’t, I can’t compete again. No, they’re thinking they’re better than that dude. You know, they’re thinking, you know, they’re thinking that they’re more talented than that kid. Like we’ve seen this happen with Kyle McCord and with Devin Brown. They have this mentality of like, no, I’m better than them. Kyle McCord could have bailed when they got Quineers. He didn’t.

Devon Brown could have bailed at any point in the last couple of months and he didn’t. So I think that Aaron Olin could have bailed and I think that this just kind of proves that the mentality that they have and that’s the mentality I would have if I were if I were coming into this class in 26. I’d be like, you know what these dudes are going to be leaving anyway, and there’s going to be attrition and there’s going to be turnover in this room. And I’m just as good if not better than all of these guys. So I’m going to come in and I’m going to play because.

If the room is as talented as people think it is and people say it is and people talk about it. Julian Sands only be here three years like if he is really the guy that everybody’s going, he’s going to be the starting quarterback in 2025. He’s only going to be here three years because if you’re the starting quarter, if he looks like everybody’s talk like we saw him with our own eyes, he looked good. If the things that people are talking about, you know with Julian are true.

Andrew (45:34.388)

this guy’s not going to be around for the fourth year. He’s going to be going into the draft in 2027. And that’s the year that you’re thinking, you know, I can do this. So really it comes down to one guy. It’s like, do you think you’re better than Tavian St. Clair? Do you think you can win a battle against Tavian St. Clair? And that’s it. So of course, yeah, I don’t think I would be scared away from it. Now, I think there’s a reasonable conversation we had about maybe a year or two into your time at a college and saying like,

All right, how do you feel about this room? Because there’s mitigating circ*mstances, the clock is running, I get that. But beforehand, no, I’m looking at it going, I’m just as good as these dudes. And frankly, I only have to worry about one guy.

And Nathan, I think that’s the mindset Ohio State’s looking for in this conversation, right? The guy who looked at that room and isn’t scared of it. In fact, he like wants it because he thinks he’s the baddest dude in the room. And what that does do is that’s how you get CJ Stroud.

That’s how you get adjusting fields is because you go guy you look who looks at the room and goes, I’m the baddest dude in the room. And then that guy ends up being a Heisman trophy. Finals ends up being a first round draft big Ohio State. There’s I think eight in the twenty twenty six recruiting class right now who are in the excuse me. No, there are twelve quarterbacks in the twenty twenty six recruiting class who are top one fifty.

And there are right now there’s only two, three, five star recruits. One of them has already committed to Georgia and that’s Jared Curtis, who was at the top of Ohio State’s board. But Ohio State has offered like 10 of those 12 who are in the top 150. And I think that’s to Andrew’s point, how he’s talking about, I’m not scared of that. In fact, I think I’m better than everybody. Do you think you’re better than Taven St. Clair? Do you think you’re better than Julian Sam? On down the list there. And 2023 guys didn’t want to sign up for that. So it’s not crazy to think that eventually a cycle comes along or quarterback just goes,

Stephen Means (47:22.923)

Even if I think I’m better than all those guys, this is a little too messy and it’s just a little bit of a smoother path here for me to get onto the field. And so I’m going to take this path instead. There’s nothing wrong with that though. At the same time, the 2023 class so far, Malachi Nelson, five -star recruit has already transferred. Dante Moore started at UCLA, five -star recruit has already transferred. Now he’s a backup at Oregon this past year. So both of those things can be true, but just what Andrew’s talking about and Nathan, hold on, Nathan, that idea.

of that’s how Ohio State recruits its quarterback rooms. That’s how Ohio State can get five quarterbacks to stay on the roster through the spring transfer portal window and into the season. That’s how you get here. It’s because that’s the type of recruit that you’re looking for is that guy who looks at the situation where from the outside looking in, it looks crazy to want to be a part of that. And guys are still signing up for it.

I mean, to some extent, this is what Julian Sane just did. I mean, Julian Sane looked here where a guy transferred in, there was a starter at a power five and had won a conference championship as a starter against a playoff team. Like that guy’s transferring in, Devon Brown is the incumbent who’s already here. They already have a five star in your class and you’re coming in. You’re choosing to come in. You have eyes wide open to all of that, not to mention linking keynotes. And you still decide to come in because of, I think what Andrew’s saying. It’s like you’re...

you’re on your own timetable. Like these other timetables don’t really matter. Like you’re developing to some extent on your own. You know, the Justin Fields thing that happened was that it wasn’t so much, I mean, he was playing that first year at Georgia, but it wasn’t in the, he wasn’t the starter and it wasn’t in the role that he wanted. And I think more to the point, I don’t even think, I know this from talking to the family, they felt he was not given the chance, a fair chance.

to earn more than that. He was just kind of put in that package and told that that was as good as it was gonna be. We’re not gonna relitigate the entire Jake From era at Georgia in a pod like this. But I think as long as you have set up a scenario, and I think what’s happening right now with Julian saying is an important part of this, as long as you are known to give guys a fair shot, I don’t think you’re gonna have trouble,

Nathan Baird (49:44.525)

getting the next guy to come. It’s such a frivolous thing anymore. How, not frivolous, but sometimes tenuous, how long guys are sticking around, how long of a chance they’ll give it, even all the reasons I was given before why you would stick around. But like you said, not every guy will do that. It’s not really the culture across sports. We don’t know how some of the things that are going on in college sports are gonna change some of these dynamics going forward.

A lot of lots still left to be decided. I think that in 2026. Yeah, it’s it’s really just Saint Claire and because you know that. At the at best.

You’re going to get a fair like suit saying has to be here through 26 if he stays here, assuming he does. And that puts you in a situation where it’s the common core Devin Brown situation, right? The other guy’s got an extra year on you and maybe has been the true backup for one year, but you’ve got a full chance to compete the next spring and preseason to be the guy. So, yeah, I would imagine that they will get the best quarterback that they can get that year. And I think that.

Yeah.

Nathan Baird (50:58.317)

Whether or not it ends up being someone like a highly ranked, you know, five star top 100 guy, or whether it ends up being someone more like Keenholz, those are just individual decisions. I don’t think there’s an approach here that is blocking Ohio State from getting kind of anyone in that spectrum.

So and think about it. Ohio State just offered a kid, Faison Brandon. He’s another 2026 quarterback. 247 has him as the number one player in the country. The composite rankings have him as the 53 overall player, the number four quarterback. So the 26 rankings do kind of fluctuate, but let’s just use him as an example because he’s the latest offer. What we know about quarterbacks in college football is that Ohio State is different.

and they do have one of the better quarterback factories in all of college football, right? You know, for, we’re not here to litigate the Lincoln Riley situation, but like Lincoln Riley’s in this conversation for a time Clemson was in this conversation. Like there are other programs that are like this, but Ohio State’s up there. And do you not think like it,

That kind of has to be part of the calculus. You know, if I’m this quarterback that’s in 2026, if I’m Faison Brandon, the kid from North Carolina, that has to be part of my calculus that. Look, there’s only one ball and there’s only one quarterback on a field, and you kind of got to be ready to move and there’s going to be a market for you wherever you move to. Right. You know, there’s going to if you’re a highly rated recruit, as highly rated of recruits as Ohio State is dealing with.

How many programs are in a position to turn down, you know, a guy who enrolls in the spring, plays his freshman year, gets through the spring and goes, you know what, nope. And, you know, just not working a year and a half, two years. How many guys are willing to turn down an elite? How many programs are willing to turn down an elite level? You know, Hey, this guy was a top 50 quarterback two years ago who just got developed at Ohio state.

Andrew (53:09.748)

but also he’s just not going to play because they have somebody slightly better than him. How many programs are going to turn that down? Right? Like you can still go somewhere else that’s good. You know, just because you’re at Ohio State doesn’t mean you’re going to end at Ohio State, but it also doesn’t mean you’re going to end it. I don’t know. Shenandoah University in Virginia, the D3 school like you’re not going to end there, right? It doesn’t mean you’re going all the way down. What’s that? That is. Yeah.

Is that a real place? Is that a real place? Is that a real place?

Shinandoah catching - Shinandoah catching strays on Buckeye Talk.

I know for anybody. Well, see, so here’s the thing. So I was thinking about it and I was going to say Mount Union or I was going to say something in Ohio, but I was a little upset because I was, you know what? I can’t make people from Ohio mad. So I picked a school from Virginia.

That’s a real place. I mean...

Stephen Means (53:49.451)

But also, Mount Union has also produced NFL players.

Exactly. Shenandoah to the best of my knowledge, with apologies to Shenandoah. I do not believe they have sent anybody to the league. Fine D3 program, solid D3 program in Virginia, but Faison Brandon, I’m pretty sure could do somewhere else if he were to come to Ohio State for a year and then go somewhere else. I’m pretty sure he can do better than that. So I think that that is part of the calculus with these quarterbacks as well, which is it’s not a disaster if you have to transfer. There isn’t this...

10, 15 year ago mentality where it’s man, a guy transfers once and you’re like, what happened? And even if a guy transfers twice, like, do you remember like even it’s still kind of prevalent a little bit today, you still kind of have lingering aspects of this where it’s like a guy enters the transfer portal two times. You see, oh, no loyalty doesn’t want to compete this, that and the other. And maybe that’s true. Or maybe the coaches told him to go and maybe he knows that he wants to play and he knows he’s not going to play at that particular school. The mindset of this is changing. So.

I wouldn’t be scared at all because I’m looking at it like, you know what? I’m going to give it a best shot at the school that I think I want to go to and the school that I think it can develop me the best to get me to the NFL. And if Ohio State’s that choice for that kid or for any kid, great. And if it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out. Go to, I don’t know, go to Clemson, go to Florida State, you know, go to Michigan, go to Penn. Michigan might be a bad example for this podcast. Go to, you know,

Alabama, go to Auburn, go to Texas Tech, go to Texas A &M, go somewhere else. You don’t have to go to the bottom of the barrel. You can find another program if it doesn’t work out. I guarantee you, if it doesn’t work out for Aaron Oland, if Aaron Oland decides that Ohio State is not for him, I guarantee you Aaron Oland’s gonna find a program of quality to end up.

Stephen Means (55:19.947)

I think it’s better.

Stephen Means (55:40.555)

Or you can go to Syracuse. You know, because they’ve had somebody do that. They’ve had a quarterback go to Florida. So you can do that as well. I just think it’s an interesting thing, maybe in the recruiting space to cover it from that perspective, because that’s the pitch at this point. We’re going to bring in the best possible guy we can bring in every single year. You think you’re better than him, come prove it while getting developed at a high level. That’s the quarterback pitch at this point. And so the question isn’t,

Oh, yeah.

Stephen Means (56:10.123)

What’s the pitch? We know what the pitch is now. The question is, is somebody going to take the bait? And all but once, a guy who was universally considered a top 100 recruit, a five -star recruit has taken the bait. C .J. Stroud signed up to be the second quarterback in the class as a guy who wasn’t a top 50 recruit and ended his career as a top 50 recruit. Kyle McCoy was a five -star recruit who looked at the fact that they brought in two guys before him and basically two guys behind him and said, yeah, I’m going to come anyway.

Quinn yours is Quinn yours. Sure. He came here because Texas was a dumpster fire and he left once Texas was no longer a dumpster fire. But Devin Brown came here knowing CJ Strout and Kyle McCord were going to be here. And he said, sign me up. Lincoln Kinnos wasn’t a top 100 recruit, but still he looked at that room and he said, sign me up. Julian Sand and Aaron Nolan, sign me up. Will Howard, sign me up. Tabian Sinclair, sign me up.

Now you’re on to 2026, which brings the point I’m making there. And this is how you get five quarterbacks in your room in the spring. And this is how you keep them heading into the fall. It’s because you have five guys who are uber talented guys, to different extents, obviously, but all uber talented. And they looked at this room and said, I’m the best guy in the room and I’m going to go prove it. And maybe some of them don’t prove it this year. Maybe some of them don’t prove it until a couple of years from now. But Nathan, I think that’s where I’m at with this is.

Ohio State’s going to go try to find the best quarterback they can get. And the question is, when they’re looking at these top tier quarterbacks around the country, here’s what we offer. Are you scared to come compete or not? And so far, only once has they had a cycle where people said, I’m not going to say we’re scared, but said no. And so I think I’m with you guys. I think they’re going to find whether it’s Dia Bell, maybe they flip Jared Curtis, maybe it’s Will Griffin down there in Florida. You just mentioned Faison Brandon.

Andrew, one of these guys, I’m with you. I think one of these guys is going to sign up to be a part of this room because that’s what Ohio State is selling is if you win the quarterback job in this room, you are legitimately one of the three or four best quarterbacks in the country because that’s how talented our room is. So that’s our pod. Seven guys out. Three guys have already picked a place that they will be calling home. Four other guys still left to do so. We’ll continue to watch this quarterback battle as it plays out. Five guys.

Stephen Means (58:34.091)

plus a commit in the 2025 recruiting class. It’s crazy, but this is where Ohio State is. Get the text 614 -350 -3315 as guys are picking homes. We’ll be texting that stuff out as we’re seeing this quarterback battle play out over the next couple of months here. We’ll be texting that stuff out as well. Kind of quiet as far as current players are concerned right now. We’re knocking on wood. You know, coaches are going to go on vacation, do some recruiting stuff. A lot of recruiting stuff still happening. There’s things going on. Andrew’s talking to guys, going to different showcases and the...

Summer camps are right around the corner, so get the text 614 -350 -3315. For Nathan Baird and for Andrew Gillis, I’m Stephen Means, and that was Buckeye Talk.

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